Ep 93: Ask Charlotte - Betrayal, How to Decide to Stay or Leave, and Getting Through “THE ICK”
By Charlotte Cummings | Feel Better Podcast
When I was little, I’d flip straight to the agony aunt pages in my mum’s Woman’s Day. These days I’m a counsellor with 20 years’ experience — and I’m bringing that same practical, compassionate advice to your real-life questions.
In every fortnightly Ask Charlotte episode of the Feel Better Podcast, I answer three listener questions around a theme. This week: tricky relationship stuff — betrayal, big decisions, and that awful ‘ick’ feeling.
If you’d like to submit a question, you’ll find a question box on my Instagram Stories every Tuesday, or you can submit anonymously via the link in my Instagram bio, the show notes, or at charlottecummings.nz.
1) Can We Recover After an Affair?
Short answer: yes, many couples do — and go on to build stronger, more honest relationships. It takes support, structure and a lot of courage.
What helps:
Specialist support: work with a counsellor experienced in betrayal recovery. You don’t need to do this alone.
Agree who you’ll tell: create a simple plan about who is in the loop. Too many opinions can add pressure; total secrecy can feel isolating.
Define trust-building conditions: identify clear, practical commitments that will help rebuild safety (e.g. lifestyle changes, transparency with devices, health checks, regular therapy). These become markers of progress.
Understand the ‘why’: explore what made the relationship vulnerable — stress, excitement-seeking, struggles with acceptance, emotional regulation. Insight guides prevention.
Treat relapse risk seriously: create a safety plan as you would for addiction — boundaries, accountability, and proactive supports.
Restore power to the offended partner: they set the conditions they need to feel safe. Expect a period of close accountability.
Hold onto hope: other couples have walked this path. Seek stories and resources that show recovery is possible.
Focus on repair: it’s not the rupture that defines you; it’s how you repair together.
2) How Do I Decide Whether to Stay or Leave?
This is tender ground. If there is any physical, psychological or financial abuse, you do not have to stay — it’s absolutely okay to get support and work on the relationship from a safe distance, or to leave.
If it’s safe, consider:
Have we had proper help? Books, courses, workshops, couples counselling, coaching — have you genuinely invested?
Time and energy: where will the capacity to fix this come from? What will you de-prioritise to create space for change?
Get specific: “communication” or “conflict” is too vague. What exactly needs to change (e.g. staying on topic, not personalising, shared planning, repair after arguments)?
Teachability: are you both open to feedback and growth? What evidence do you have of each other’s willingness to learn?
Evidence of change: define goals, actions and timelines. Notice what’s already shifted — or set clear markers to track progress.
Will these issues follow me? Some patterns are ours to resolve. If you left, which struggles might reappear with someone new?
Why did we choose each other? Revisit what was good. Your brain is wired to confirm your current view — balance it by remembering strengths and care that still exist.
Do things differently: reinforce what you want more of. Appreciate specific behaviours and the positive impact they have on you and the relationship.
If you create a clear plan, give it honest effort, and the agreed changes don’t happen, that’s meaningful information for your decision.
3) I Feel Emotionally Detached and the Thought of Intimacy Gives Me the Ick
You’re not alone — especially for parents. Parenting places real stress on relationships; it changes how you connect and how much energy you have for each other.
Start here:
Name the impact of parenting: acknowledge the pressure and how it’s altered your bond.
Understand why you detached: protection from rejection? Avoiding disappointment? Feeling like a failure? Insight softens edges and guides repair.
Challenge the story: if you’re convinced there’s no way back, you’ll only see evidence of that. Look for small signs of warmth, teamwork, humour or care.
Map emotional needs: what do you each most want to feel (e.g. safe, desired, successful, appreciated)? List tangible ways to create those feelings for one another. Emotional closeness is the foundation of physical closeness.
Imagine a fresh version of “us”: you don’t have to recreate the old relationship. If things were thriving a year from now, what would we be doing differently day-to-day?
Address practical “ick” triggers: sometimes attraction is affected by solvable factors — stress, sleep, hygiene, style, tone, clutter, routines. Honest, kind conversations plus small upgrades can shift how you feel.
Look at desire blockers: if intimacy isn’t enjoyable, of course you won’t want it. Consider stress, resentment, pace of life, and whether you need guidance (a sex therapist can help).
Get help: if you can’t see the path, borrow someone else’s map. Counselling provides safety, language and structure when you’re stuck.
How to Get Your Question Answered
Instagram Stories: pop your question into the Tuesday question box — @charlottethecounsellor
Ask anonymously: find the link in my Instagram bio, in the podcast show notes, or at charlottecummings.nz
Relationships can face hard seasons — betrayal, crossroads, and disconnection among them. With the right support, clear agreements, and a willingness to repair, many couples rediscover safety, kindness and closeness. If you’re in the thick of it, take heart: change is possible.
For more resources and to submit your question, visit charlottecummings.nz.
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Thanks for joining me for this episode of Ask Charlotte, part of the Feel Better podcast. So let's get into today's episode which is all about some tricky stuff within relationships.
The first question is this, my husband had an affair, we have young children and we're trying to work a way forward. Can people recover from this and be okay? And I want to answer this by saying a resounding yes and here is my advice on how you might go about doing that. I think one of the key things to remember here is that actually there are many couples that face betrayal within their relationships and we just don't know about it.
There are a lot of couples that I know that I work with in counselling who are facing this issue who some of their closest friends and family don't even know what is going on for them. So one of the key things to say here is you're really not alone in this. This is a far more common challenge than you might realise.
It is also something that you can't easily navigate on your own and I'd really recommend that you make some time to go and see a counsellor but particularly someone who's got a special experience in betrayal therapy. Either that's their specialty and that's most of the work that they do or they've got really significant experience and working with this issue. Do you know there's something that I say to couples who come to me for counselling after there's a betrayal and it's this.
I want you to be able to say at the end of this process that your relationship is better because of this and no you wouldn't want to face this experience again and you wouldn't wish it on another person but what I want you to be able to say at the end of working through this is that we gained more than we lost from this and at the moment in your relationship you're feeling the many many losses and challenges that have come into your relationship due to the betrayal. So where we want to set our sights is how can we turn this into a transformative experience for you and your relationship. To something where you look back and you go you know we wouldn't want that to happen again but we've actually grown so much through that experience.
One of the key things I find for a lot of couples when they're responding to betrayal is that they need to have a plan about who they're going to talk to. It is too hard to keep this a total secret and I think what you want to do is strike that balance of not telling anyone and everyone so that you feel like everyone's watching your relationship and there's all this pressure but what you want to do is have a plan in place for who are we going to tell and agree that as a couple who are you bringing into this really tender time within your relationship. One of the key questions that you need to ask if there has been a betrayal is what are we going to do and what's needed to restore trust here.
People often come to counseling and they say I just cannot imagine how we come back from this. I cannot imagine how I will trust this person again and the reality is that actually if you get brainstorming there are likely some conditions and some things that could happen that would restore that trust in your relationship and I want to tell you a story here. A couple that I know had a really difficult betrayal experience and he went to her and said I'm gonna do anything to get you back.
I will do anything to earn this relationship again. What can I do? And she said never drink again. He said okay and the many years forward in their relationship now that was the condition.
That was a really big sacrifice for the person who had made the betrayal and it was a really good ongoing sign to her that he was committed to her, committed to this relationship and really willing to put something on the line that was inconvenient for him, that he didn't particularly enjoy, that was part of the trigger that led to the betrayal in the first place but it was actually a really important thing to have behind them to restore trust ongoingly. One of the other things that's really good if you take this time to work out what's it going to take to restore trust here is that it actually gives you some markers along the journey because you can see they've done that thing that I asked them to do. They've followed through in that step that we agreed and often when it comes to recovery from betrayal the feelings of trust might not necessarily naturally return all by themselves and you need those markers to actually say maybe I can trust them again because they have done all of these things that we agreed together that they would do.
One of the key things in recovering from betrayal as well as understanding the triggers and it can be really hard for the person who has been betrayed to not just blame themselves. That is a really key issue, not feeling good enough, feeling I contributed to this in some way, they strayed from our relationship because of X, Y and Z that I was doing or not doing and that is so hard and actually so heartbreaking to hear as a counsellor. I think you need to take a holistic look at what triggered this occurring, what's happening in our relationship and what ways was that person trying to regulate their emotions through this betrayal because sometimes it's about looking for excitement, it's about managing stress, it's about loving and craving the feeling of acceptance and getting that from this new shiny person that they've found and engaged with in this betrayal.
So I think getting back to considering why this happened is really important and that allows you to then plan around safety ongoingly and how are we going to avoid this going forward. Betrayal needs to be responded to a little bit like addiction as if we're making a plan for how are we going to keep you safe, how are we going to keep safe the person who has betrayed you, how are we going to make sure your relationship is protected from this happening again and treating the betrayal like an addiction can be really helpful when it comes to that. One of the other key things I say when couples turn up to me for counselling around betrayal is that the offended person, the person who's been betrayed gets to call the shots and that means really getting to call the shots.
So if they want a tracker on you they can, if they want to demand that you staying in the relationship means you going and getting an STD test or you going and showing up for weekly therapy or you submitting your phone to them every night so you can check it through or you hearing all of the details of what occurred then the offended person is the person who gets to call the shots and that's really important in terms of restoring the power and balance that's occurred through the betrayal. So the offended person being able to have permission to fully think about what's it going to take for me to feel okay in this going forward, to not worry about you doing this again, how am I going to be okay in this and the person who has made the betrayal has to make peace with the reality that they're going to feel like they're living on a short leash for a period of time. I think one of the big things that for me really strikes to the heart of what this person has asked in their question around can we recover from this as it's so important to keep in mind that other people have walked this journey before you.
I sometimes think about Mount Everest and you know every person who climbed Mount Everest after Sir Edmund Hillary knew that it was possible because he'd been up that mountain before and sometimes it's like that when it comes to the issues that we face in our lives and in our relationships. We actually need to go looking for that evidence from other people's relationships that they have recovered from this too, that there is a way forward, that you can actually feel good again in your relationship, your relationship can recover to the point that it's better than what it was and that you can find your way through this because other people have. Now you might need to go and seek out those stories perhaps within your social circles, maybe you need to go reading about that to try and find books, stories on the internet, whatever material you can get to show you how other people got through this and it's really about holding on to the hope that other people have walked this journey.
Many, many times couples in counselling have wanted me to share stories with them about other people's experiences and they love it when I say this one time that I worked with this couple around this and this was their experience and then here's where they are now. I know how much of an impact that makes to couples to hear those kinds of stories so remember to surround yourself with those stories of where it has worked out. One of my biggest things to say is this, instead of wondering if it can work out, start thinking about what if it does? What if this story ends really well? What if you end up here with a relationship that feels incredibly safe that you're really proud of and you feel really satisfied within? What if this story goes well and what would that look like? And how do you need to start behaving now, both of you, in order to create that preferred future that you want? One of the things I really love from the Gottman Institute, which is a very famous relationship institute, is that what doesn't matter is the rupture.
What doesn't matter is what happens in our relationship. Those bad things, those tough things that happen, do not matter as much as the repair and so focusing on that repair, how are we going to rebuild this, is really important. The Gottman Institute actually say that strong relationships are ones that have had to do repair so think about this as an opportunity to repair and rebuild your relationship.
I really feel for people who are going through betrayal. It is hard work and it takes a lot of commitment but I hope that what you've heard today is that it is definitely possible with some good help, with some clear boundaries and guidelines and certainly with some hope for the future. Okay so question number two for today's episode.
How do you decide if you're going to stay in your marriage? And when this came through I went oh this is such a tough question because so often I'm aware that when I'm answering something like this or supporting someone who's making a decision about whether to stay or leave a relationship, it is such a tender time and I can feel that they're looking for me to say whatever it is that they're wanting to hear. So what I want you to do as you listen to this answer, if you're this person or if you're listening and this is a situation that you're in, is consider perhaps not what you want to hear but what will help you through making this decision. So what I'm going to do here is ask some questions about what it really looks like to change a relationship that will help you to determine whether this is a relationship that you're wanting to remain within.
And a really important caveat here is if your relationship includes any kind of abuse, physical, financial, psychological, you do not have to stay in the relationship. It is really acceptable to work on your relationship at a distance that keeps you safe. So what I want you to ask if you're struggling to determine whether you're going to stay or leave your relationship is think about have you got help? What help and resources has this relationship actually had? It is something that I think is just so bizarre that we expect people's relationships to thrive, to navigate huge lifestyle changes, stage transitions that happen in our lives, to navigate stress and pressure all without help.
We expect relationships to thrive with little to no input. So if you're honest, how much help has your relationship had? Have you actually accessed resources, supportive people, coaching, whatever it is that you want to do to help make your relationship better? Have you actually done it? The other thing that is quite uncomfortable when it comes to answering this question is how much time and effort have you put into your relationship? Often when I ask people about this, they're leading these really busy lives and I'm going okay cool, you're coming to me for counseling about your relationship, do you know what? Where's the time and energy to fix this going to come from? What are you going to give up to make this work? What else in your life are you going to make easier so that you've got the energy to give this relationship the attention that it needs to change? And that is often an uncomfortable question but have you put the time and energy into trying to give it a go to change? One of the other things I think is incredibly important when it comes to relationships is do you know exactly what it is that needs to change? Now there's this thing that happens when couples come to me for counseling. They sit down and I say okay tell me why you're here, what's going on? And they say well you know our problem is communication or our problem is conflict.
I'm like that's not really your problem. What specifically do you mean by our problem is communication? Is it that we can't stay on topic to talk about one thing at a time? Is it that we can't talk about things without taking them personally? What specifically is it about your relationship that needs to change? Because you actually can't change that until you work that out. So sitting down and asking yourself what exactly needs to change and getting clear about that and in agreement with your partner is really important.
Another thing that's important is teachability and this is something to look for if you're evaluating is this relationship going to work? So you both need to be in a space where you can learn and grow and change in the ways that you need to for your relationship to be better and different. What evidence have you got of the other person's teachability and where are you at in terms of your own reflectiveness, taking on board feedback, thinking about how you're being experienced in the relationship. What is it that's going on in this teachability space and maybe that is something that you need help with.
Getting couples reset in terms of being able to receive feedback from one another, not take things personally and work constructively through issues is a really big challenge but often an important step in recovering a relationship. Getting to that space where you're in that teachable mode. Another thing to consider in your decision is what evidence have you got of change? What has happened so far on that journey of trying to change the relationship? Now I know that some people will be listening to this and they'll be going nothing, nothing has changed.
It's been like this for ages. Well that's when you start thinking about what are we going to try? What plans are we going to make? What goalposts are we going to set? So we've got some really clear markers of whether change is actually happening. I don't think people should leave relationships unless they're unsafe.
I think that people should consider staying in their relationship until they've had that really clear plan laid out of these are the things that need to change, this is what we're going to do and this is how we're going to measure whether those things are happening or not. If those changes don't happen I think that's pretty good grounds to leave the relationship but if you're not clear on what needs to change and exactly what you're intending to do then maybe take some time to get those plans sorted out first. One of the other things to consider and this is pretty tough to hear is do I think these issues are going to follow me? So let's skip ahead and think I'm gonna leave this relationship.
In five years time when you're with someone else are these same issues going to follow you? Are these your issues? Because the thing that happens in life and in relationships is our lessons are repeated until we learn them. So the chances are that some of what is affecting this relationship is going to come with you into the next relationship and that's part of why I advocate as a therapist for people having a really good go at seeing what they can change within the relationship that they've got. One of the other questions I ask as a couples therapist that people really hate is why did you fall in love with this person in the first place? And I can't think that you got married to them, you had kids with them or you've been in this long-term relationship with them for 10 years of your life without actually liking them in the early days.
Without thinking they were pretty cool and that your life would be better with them than without them. So I make people go back and tell me about that. Why were you attracted to them? What did they add to your life and what did you like about them in those early days? They can be some really important things to remember because our brain does this confirmation bias thing where when we think something we go looking for the evidence that that thing is true.
So if you're telling yourself this person I'm with they're a loser, they're never gonna change, they're just too negative or whatever the story is that you're telling yourself, maybe it's time to go back to thinking about what do they add to my life? What do I enjoy about this person? And remind yourself of those things that actually are great about this person, that actually do work about your relationship. The other thing I think is important if you're trying to make change in your relationship is to consider doing things differently because the odds are that what you are doing at the moment isn't working. Something for example that I talk to couples about often in therapy is how they get more of the behavior that they want.
So when your partner does something that you appreciate, you talk about not just thanks for taking the rubbish out but you say something about hey when you do something like that for me I feel really seen and I feel like this is a partnership that I enjoy. It really matters to me when you do those things. Thank you so much.
What do you think is gonna get your partner taking out the rubbish more? You know berating them and saying you don't help enough and I'm so sick of this and I'm doing everything around here or actually saying hey when you do this thing I'm gonna put my attention on it. I'm gonna tell you how it makes me feel and I'm gonna affirm you and praise you and talk about the impact on our relationship when you do those things. So please learn to go over the top when it comes to this.
Think about as well how we get children to behave in different ways. When they do the thing we want we jump on it. We praise them.
We tell them what a good person they are. We tell them how much we love that thing they did and how that really matters to us and impacts us. It's the same in our relationships.
You need to give praise and put attention on the things that are making the relationship better. So if you're in this situation where you're thinking about whether to stay in a relationship or to move on I send you lots of love. It is a really tender time, some really big important questions to ask in this space and I wish you well if this is something you're grappling with right now.
Okay so the last question for today is this. I've emotionally detached myself so much from my marriage I can't ever see a way back from just being friends who parent together. The thought of intimacy gives me the ick.
Any bit of advice is welcome. Oh I've got a lot to say about this one. So one of the key things that I hear in this question is that these people are parents and a line that I have about parenting is that parenting is a trauma to a relationship.
It is actually really tough. It is something that happens to your relationship that means your relationship with that one person is never the same again. We know that parenting adds stress and pressure that can really impact relationships and so I think it's so important to acknowledge that parenting is a trauma.
It's something that's happened that has driven a wedge between you and your spouse and your relationship will never be the same again and the way that we think about when a trauma happens we're not the same into the future. So I wonder if you need to acknowledge the impact that parenting has had, the challenges that has brought to your relationship and to think about how that has impact the nature of the relationship that you've got now with this emotional detachment and feeling like you're in the friend zone. The other thing I think is really important for you to ask if you're feeling emotionally detached is can you try and understand why you emotionally detached in the first place? So one of the reasons why people emotionally detach from someone is to try and protect themselves.
So what was it that you were trying to avoid by emotionally detaching? Was it that you were feeling rejected? Was it that you were trying to protect yourself from feeling like a failure? Was it something that was going on in your relationship where you were avoiding disappointment or disappointing them? What has happened that has impacted this emotional detachment and why did you do it? Bringing some understanding around that is really important and again this is where confirmation bias shows up. If you're telling yourself I can't see a way back from this, I can't see how we will ever create a close intimate relationship again, then you are only ever going to see evidence of that. So where is the evidence that this might actually be a good person, that you have things in common with, where you have maybe some little moments of attraction? Think about those pieces of evidence that actually might tell a different story.
When it comes to relationships something we often don't understand is this topic of emotional needs and this is where we get intimacy and closeness in relationships. If we can understand what we emotionally need from the relationship, what the other person is looking for from the relationship emotionally, then we can start to create the kind of relationship we want that we're going to enjoy. So perhaps your spouse really likes to feel successful and maybe you really need to feel safe.
What is it that you most want to feel in this relationship and how are you going to create that? Because when you get to that stage of being close when it comes to meeting one another's emotional needs, that's when that feeling of I'm connected to this person can return. So I'd encourage you to think about what your emotional needs are and to talk to them about theirs. What does it look like to meet those emotional needs in this relationship? And then again, what would it look like if we did create something fresh and new here? Something I often say to couples in counselling is, do you know what, it is totally okay if you decide that you never want to go back to the relationship that you had.
You actually want something that is really different here. What would be different? What would you be doing differently and what would it look like? I think so often we don't imagine the vision for how we want things to be in our relationship. So if this did have a massive transformation, if I came and saw you in a year's time and things were really different, you were emotionally connected and you did feel close to this person, what would be going on? What would I see? What would the behaviours be that are different? Okay and when it comes to the ick factor, I've been really looking forward to answering this one.
I think it's important to be real when it comes to attraction because sometimes there are things about our partner that we don't actually like. Now I'm going to tell a story here and in fairness to my husband, this is not something that was an ick factor with him but it is definitely something that made me more attracted to him. To be honest, it was something that I did because I thought, I don't know what to buy this guy for his birthday, I was about to have our second baby, I was short on time and I went okay I'm gonna book him a couple of hours with a personal shopper.
So he went out with this personal shopper and came back with a whole new wardrobe. It was also at a point in our time where we were in that jump between our 20s and 30s and he came back looking like a completely different person and was so attractive to me as this new beautifully presented stylish person. Now sometimes we need to address those things in our relationship that actually might make someone more attractive to us.
So if there are things that are going on in terms of their personal hygiene or their style or the way that they're talking about things, what is it that's creating the ick and can you talk about that with them or address that in some way? Some people feel like oh my goodness that is absolutely not okay to talk about and it really is and it's way more important that you have those honest conversations then find yourself at the stage where you're going I can't be in this relationship anymore. One of the other things I think is important to think about when it comes to intimacy and relationships is how stressed are you? Because so often this is one of the key challenges couples face when it comes to feeling like any form of physical closeness. They're wired, they're tired, they're under pressure and our body when we're in that kind of space certainly doesn't feel like someone else being close to us.
So think about too what is happening in that intimacy space when it comes to your desire. Do you actually like physical intimacy? Friend of mine Jo Robertson the sex therapist talks about if you don't like broccoli you're not going to want to put it on your plate and I think that that is important to think about. If you don't actually enjoy what happens when you're physically intimate that doesn't feel good to you and isn't something that you look forward to and actually like and find pleasurable then of course you're not going to want to do more of that.
So think about that when it comes to intimacy what do we need to work on here? Is the reality that I don't like this person and I don't want to be with them or that there are other factors that are impacting my desire in general, my desire for them and my experience of physical intimacy with this person. I think that one of the realities when it comes to a question like this of can we move beyond the ick is it's so important to dive into what's the ick about and what is the intimacy look like when it does happen. And I just want to say to this person and anyone else who finds themselves in this situation it is totally okay to not be able to see a way forward in your relationship and to need help with that.
You know to hit a wall and collapse in a bit of a heap in our relationship and go I cannot see how this progresses, I cannot see a way forward. Sometimes it's important to get some help with that and it sounds like a time to do things really differently and see what unfolds. I'm going to finish with a little story here.
Years ago when I was training to do relationship therapy I went to a course and I walked in looked at the facilitator and went oh my goodness she's out the gate, ah not sure what I can learn from this person. And her style was quite different to mine and one day she was talking about intimacy and she said intimacy we need to remember is in to me see. I just about fell off my chair laughing because that was kind of like not my style but do you know what that has stayed with me and is something that I've actually talked about with a number of couples.
When it comes to intimacy and we think about physical intimacy and closeness, actually what creates intimacy in our relationship is allowing a person to see into us. Allowing them to know our deepest needs, to know what's happening for us, to be able to share with them and when we create that kind of closeness, when we create safety and can meet one another's emotional needs, that is what creates the ground for there to be able to have, for there to be able to be physical intimacy that builds from that base. Well there we go the first episode of Ask Charlotte.
